Alijah Poindexter 00:06
Good day and welcome to the buzz, a bank automation news podcast. I’m Associate Editor Alijah Poindexter on Fridays this month, we’re sharing excerpts from the bank automation Summit. In today’s episode, tech leaders from the banking and financial services industry, joining me to discuss automation strategies and commercial lending from both the bank and fintech point of view. Joining me are a tool Varma CIO of personal and business banking with BMO, Daniel Seay, Senior Vice President and Director of wholesale transformation at Fifth Third Bank. Chris Gufford, General Manager of commercial product and nCino, And Karen Oakland, Vice President of industry marketing with smart communications. When you’re looking at a lending process in your head, and it’s sort of it’s just there, Chris, I’ll throw this at you. How do you decide if it needs automation, and maybe you can give a use case as to something that you saw in the, you know, recent past present, and it was like this directly needs automation? We’re gonna go ahead and tackle this. And then maybe what the results of that were,Chris Gufford 01:00
yeah, sure. So I was a credit analyst for a number of years before sitting in the technology seat working on this direct first hand experience of what I’m about to explain, and probably many of you experienced that as well, but financial statement analysis, and Daniel, certainly would appreciate this as well, right? It’s, you know, I get financial statements from a borrower and I spend, you know, days on end with a 10 key, and I really fast with it, actually, now, still to this day, but, you know, keying numbers from this paper into this machine, right? And I get some outputs. And, you know, when I embarked on the technology journey, gosh, almost 15 years ago now, and you know, I always thought, Man, if I could make that go away, I’ve probably done something, right. And, you know, we step back now, and we look at it. And, gosh, that was a lot of transposition of information, right. And, really, Leighton data into this. And then frankly, that data just got more latent as I put it into there, but I didn’t realize it at the time. So we’ll do more with that later. But leveraging technology like optical character recognition, which is a technology, I like it, but until we have a business application for it, it’s just that and so taking, you know, PDF copies, or Excel spreadsheets, or whatever, and feeding those in automatically, I just freed up hours in a week for my credit analysts to be able to do things. And then you take that one step further, you’re even seeing this out in the market. Now we’re we’re going straight to accounting systems and pulling data out of those accounting systems and putting in those two financial analysis. So even cutting out that paper intermediary at times, right and expediting that process. So when we talk about that journey, and that experience, suddenly, the experience to the credit analyst, I never liked seeing those things. And I like thinking about it after I got it in there. So time to analysis, and that job satisfaction is way better, but also my time to Yes, my time to loan committee, the quality of what I can do, because I have more time to spend on it all improves, right. So the entire journey for the client. And me and my internal constituents have gotten way better. So that’s a

Atul Verma 03:03
great point, if I may add to that, actually, so we looked at this from a obviously some obviously, yes, proclamations document handling is a good example. We went after that. Credit decisioning is a good example. But to your point about making it easier for the analysts, but in our case, a banker, we have about 600 bankers on the platform between Canada and US, for them to not have to deal with the system. But we deal with the customer and the client they’re working with, have that conversation need to the need assessment systems will be pretty transparent to them, actually, they should not look at their training about where to click and what to do. Right. So that was one of the focus areas for us exactly the point that you were making.

Karen Oakland 03:42
So Chris and I were talking about this a week or two ago, before we came in, about OCR. And so from Spark communications, where we have done a lot recently is around what I would say digital forms transformation. And I like to say the form of the future is actually not a form at all. But it’s more of a digital interview where it’s pre populated by a system of record, it’s guiding somebody down a path like a TurboTax kind of experience, and where we find the most places where we see that as you go to a bank’s website, or insurance company’s website, and you’re looking to do something, and then it takes you to a webpage and it lists all the PDF forms that it wants you to then download, fill out, scan and send it back. And it’s not a digital experience. It’s a digital and name only kind of experience. And so removing that friction from especially new account opening loan origination, but servicing kinds of things as well seen a lot of really great stories around that. One of the areas I’ve seen a lot is like leasing kinds of applications in particular, because you have to build in some automation that allows for renewals, right. So after that lease is up, you want to have communications that are generated to renew that or do something that there’s a lot of really interesting things. And there’s the last thing too is we were talking about these signatures, I think on an earlier panel and I always come back to like You know, you have to prepare that document for a signature to. So it’s not just a signature, but it’s all the prepared preparation, the Prepare part of that and then pulling it through. So we’ve seen a lot of kind of action around e signature was like one of the hottest technologies over COVID. It’s crazy,

Daniel Seay 05:19
in interesting piece on the documents, and none of the banks like to admit this, we’ve done this study in a couple of different places, it takes longer to do a renewal, and it does a new money deal. And intuitively, that makes no sense. You’ve already underwritten the client, you’ve done your client selection. But the reality is, when you get into it, you have to go back and cross reference everything from the previous year if you don’t have a good snapshot, and sometimes you’re on like amendment number 10. And so you’re going back to somebody that worked at the bank seven years ago to figure out what they did. And is it okay, if you change it, and so much of that, once you start to actually capture the data, where you can then use it, you can snapshot it and say, only four data elements change from the last time we did this? They’re good move on. So I think that’s really starts to change the game. And, you know, the reality is, even with a lot of the automation, it’s been about new money deals, I got a new client new money, how do I do it fast? Well, the reality is most of us are monitoring, you know, ongoing, most of us are doing, you know, annual reviews, or renewing a lot of credit on a annual basis. And that’s where all the people are, that’s where the money is at. And those are the clients who want to keep and maintain that, you know, own going annuity stream. So does you think about fixing the docks, it starts to make all that so much simpler.

Alijah Poindexter 06:29
I’ll take a moment here to pause everybody, and let everybody know that we are looking forward to your questions. I already have a few in here. They look awesome. But again, if you have any questions, just go ahead and throw them in there. And hopefully, we’ll get to them. So to go back to you, you know, when we keep all this complexity in mind, how does a financial institution How did they manage to automate these complex and multi layered lending solutions at scale?

Atul Verma 06:50
That’s a great point. So we are almost Victor was here before 20 year old bank, almost starting trillion dollars. So we have all the technologies we can ever imagine, right? Everything is there. So the key is to look at how do you go from being artesian to industrial, right, that the scaling part that you mentioned, so we have examples of this team did this. But that’s where this died actually never went beyond that team. So we’re very focused on how do you make sure it’s industrial, it’s applicable to the broader set of processes and broader set of applications. And the second thing, which is more about the value delivery, so automation, for the sake of automation, very quickly kills the business case and the story, right, so you have to make sure there’s enough value and stages of the process. So this particular transformation in the business banking, from day one, we have monthly releases. And each obviously, in the beginning, it took some time to get to a to MVP state. But after that, we were really clear on what our KPIs should be, and how we measure the success as we go forward. So those are the two things where it really helps. And for the company, like ours, is really big. So the point in the previous channel, but we cannot centralize these things, it has to be decentralized. And we have to enable all the groups to self so these tools and build their own automation, those things would be come to mind in terms of how you scale up.

Alijah Poindexter 08:12
Wonderful. Okay, so Chris, I’ll put this one to you. In, you know, it’s hard to believe that it’s already been almost to the day, two years, since everything first shut down, so to speak. And obviously, PPP was a massive part of that. So Chris, you know, obviously, we have a lot of, you know, general ideas about you know, how PPP changed lending automation, specifically commercial lending automation, but you know, from your boots on the ground approach, what did you see happening? And what have you seen, you know, how financial institutions responded?

Chris Gufford 08:40
Yeah, I think, you know, when you when you look at that program, and when it was deployed, and we were super fortunate enough to be involved, you know, pretty heavily trying to help our partner banks take, you know, take that help to the street, so to speak. And, yeah, I think two things happen. One, you know, the banks in the advise in this room, right? Financial institutions, realizing how quickly you can deploy a technology solution when this when, when the necessity strikes, right. And really put something together really, really quickly, that adds the right customer value at the right moment in time. And, you know, then secondarily to that it altered customer expectations almost overnight. I feel like, suddenly, you know, we’re having conversations with a number of institutions that are like, I just need my small business lending to work like that. Right, that we did it that quickly, that fast. And so, and the customer’s expectations are that they want to interact digitally. They want to interact, they want to send their documents in digitally, they want to get their documents back digitally. They want to digital, yes. And those sorts of things, and they want an experience that’s that’s wrapped up into a more web driven phone enhanced experience. All because of that, and I think that’s not just happening, necessarily in the smallest business arena or the business banking arena that we typically think of what PvP is certainly surfacing itself upstream of it in the interactions, you know, I’m sure Karen seeing and, and we are as well, you know, I wouldn’t disagree that the probably the large 100 million dollar hospital deal, there’s still a lot of high touch going on there. But I like to think that it did make it much more high touch high tech, though. And the expectation has even changed there and how they how that should work. So I think it’s impacted upstream and downstream. And in those particular ways, anything else care?

Karen Oakland 10:31
No, we definitely found the same thing. So we built actually, it’s very similarly a PPP, Specific Forms application, especially around the loan forgiveness process, which you guys probably all know, is really complicated, because you had to upload a lot of information about salaries and rents, and there are all kinds of rules changing all the time, I mean, the government keeps changing the rules on you. So you have to go in and keep changing it. And so we actually were really successful, in particular, with banks that did not have big giant IT teams to your point about build versus buy, you know, certainly your Wells Fargo, they are here or not, but you know, somebody like that they had got an army of it, people that can put something together, but to be able to plug and play and be able to use kind of some of these low code, drag and drop kind of business user type solutions, I think that is the wave of the future to be able to scale and be able to get these things up and running quickly. And then similar to Chris, we’ve definitely found that one space started to see oh, this is working here. What else could I do, and similar kinds of really paper intensive complex processes. I think one of the keys with that digital solution, too, is the ability to put in calculations on the back end to right. And so to be able to just automate all of that process made a real difference. I mean, and we always like to talk about it made a real difference in people’s lives to and be able to get that money faster. And that has done has real impact. So

Alijah Poindexter 11:54
So for two and Daniel, you know, when implementing these technologies, which were most instrumental to your bank success, and just sort of automating commercial lending. And so this is RPA. This is workflow process automation on the employee side, of course, machine learning, and, of course, intelligent document automation. So maybe a little bit of insight there.

Daniel Seay 12:14
So, you know, I think long term we look at what are the things are gonna last and drive value is much more around the integration really building automation? No, Robotics has been very beneficial, especially in our operation space. But I also think a lot of times, it’s plugging the gap. Now we’re about to do a major like many of us in this room, we’re on AFS level three, we’re making a decision, you know, what platform we’re gonna replace that with? Well, the team did a great job over the years of doing robotics that we really can’t reuse that took the cost out and the people are there anymore. And now as we move to a new tool, there’s essentially a side project that we now have to do to make sure we don’t lose that level of automation. And so that’s where, you know, Robotics has been very good. In the short run, we used a lot in PvP. But a lot of what we’re looking at is, how can we build things are going to change. So we know we’re going to be plugging vendors in and out for different capabilities, because vendors are just going so deep in certain areas, is no longer you can have one platform that covers just everything.

Atul Verma 13:15
For us, it’s less of the robotics, because we tried to fix the process itself was trying to automate on an older, inefficient process. But workflow automation was big, both front and back. making it transparent to the customer was a big deal for us in the process. That’s a integrated customer experience, that’s a big part of the customer experience. So they know where things are. So a lot of automation around notifications, for example, a lot of automation around real time fraud rules and fraud engine. So we put in something like selfie ID, you can take a selfie, when you’re applying, that gets processed along with your other documentation makes the rule. And the biggest part of these, these are all adjustable. So as we learn more about the customer behavior, either a set of customers or a point in time, we can tweak them, actually. And we saw that very clearly with our selfie Id use. Initially, we when we implemented that for our teams, where when to narrow, and we were at like a 10% approval rate, is that what’s going on. So it’s real time. So that’s the beauty of it, you can really tweak it and open up the aperture as much as you want to close it back again, depending on what’s going on those some examples. But again, back to the point about the tooling is important, but also the value delivery. So you need to look at your end to end process. What are you trying to achieve from an outcome perspective and then focus on those days.

Daniel Seay 14:35
I think the other item and probably even more important than the automation or RPA or anything else is what’s the change management around it. Because if people look back to transparency, they don’t trust what you build, they will find a way around it. And it will always happen and you can try to mandate it from the top down, that you’re never going to have the right employee experience and the right outcome if you’re mandating it versus them wanting to use it. So it’s so important to do that one project I worked on this was not the third, but it actually built a really slick product that was mainly digital and really low adoption rate. So we went in to look at, you know, why is this not being used? We started talking to bankers, the bankers, first person I talked to, oh, well, anytime I get some that fits this box, I refer it to another bank. It’s like, wait a second, you’re referring business to a competitor. And, you know, I was pretty hot went and talked to the next banker, and they said the same thing. And it turned out most of the bankers, especially the ones that were really successful, they were referring to another bank, instead of going through the automated channel, because they said, I took years to build this relationship. I make a lot of money off of this client. And I don’t even understand how this digital channel works. I have no control over I don’t get any updates about it. If my client calls me and they’re upset, I don’t know anything. And so I’m not going to jeopardize that. And so we that make it completely missed a change management aspect around what does it do to our employees? And so there was no vine didn’t get the lift you won’t you miss that end goal of what you were trying to do and so then open it up and actually make it transparent so that the bankers still have control over their client.

Alijah Poindexter 16:11
You’ve been listening to the bus, a bank automation news podcast. Thank you for your time, and be sure to visit us at Bank automation news.com For more automation news, you can also follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. Please don’t hesitate to rate this podcast on your podcast platform of choice. Thank you.

Alijah Poindexter 00:06
Good day and welcome to the buzz, a bank automation news podcast. I’m Associate Editor Alijah Poindexter on Fridays this month, we’re sharing excerpts from the bank automation Summit. In today’s episode, tech leaders from the banking and financial services industry, joining me to discuss automation strategies and commercial lending from both the bank and fintech point of view. Joining me are a tool Varma CIO of personal and business banking with BMO, Daniel Seay, Senior Vice President and Director of wholesale transformation at Fifth Third Bank. Chris Gufford, General Manager of commercial product and nCino, And Karen Oakland, Vice President of industry marketing with smart communications. When you’re looking at a lending process in your head, and it’s sort of it’s just there, Chris, I’ll throw this at you. How do you decide if it needs automation, and maybe you can give a use case as to something that you saw in the, you know, recent past present, and it was like this directly needs automation? We’re gonna go ahead and tackle this. And then maybe what the results of that were,Chris Gufford 01:00
yeah, sure. So I was a credit analyst for a number of years before sitting in the technology seat working on this direct first hand experience of what I’m about to explain, and probably many of you experienced that as well, but financial statement analysis, and Daniel, certainly would appreciate this as well, right? It’s, you know, I get financial statements from a borrower and I spend, you know, days on end with a 10 key, and I really fast with it, actually, now, still to this day, but, you know, keying numbers from this paper into this machine, right? And I get some outputs. And, you know, when I embarked on the technology journey, gosh, almost 15 years ago now, and you know, I always thought, Man, if I could make that go away, I’ve probably done something, right. And, you know, we step back now, and we look at it. And, gosh, that was a lot of transposition of information, right. And, really, Leighton data into this. And then frankly, that data just got more latent as I put it into there, but I didn’t realize it at the time. So we’ll do more with that later. But leveraging technology like optical character recognition, which is a technology, I like it, but until we have a business application for it, it’s just that and so taking, you know, PDF copies, or Excel spreadsheets, or whatever, and feeding those in automatically, I just freed up hours in a week for my credit analysts to be able to do things. And then you take that one step further, you’re even seeing this out in the market. Now we’re we’re going straight to accounting systems and pulling data out of those accounting systems and putting in those two financial analysis. So even cutting out that paper intermediary at times, right and expediting that process. So when we talk about that journey, and that experience, suddenly, the experience to the credit analyst, I never liked seeing those things. And I like thinking about it after I got it in there. So time to analysis, and that job satisfaction is way better, but also my time to Yes, my time to loan committee, the quality of what I can do, because I have more time to spend on it all improves, right. So the entire journey for the client. And me and my internal constituents have gotten way better. So that’s a

Atul Verma 03:03
great point, if I may add to that, actually, so we looked at this from a obviously some obviously, yes, proclamations document handling is a good example. We went after that. Credit decisioning is a good example. But to your point about making it easier for the analysts, but in our case, a banker, we have about 600 bankers on the platform between Canada and US, for them to not have to deal with the system. But we deal with the customer and the client they’re working with, have that conversation need to the need assessment systems will be pretty transparent to them, actually, they should not look at their training about where to click and what to do. Right. So that was one of the focus areas for us exactly the point that you were making.

Karen Oakland 03:42
So Chris and I were talking about this a week or two ago, before we came in, about OCR. And so from Spark communications, where we have done a lot recently is around what I would say digital forms transformation. And I like to say the form of the future is actually not a form at all. But it’s more of a digital interview where it’s pre populated by a system of record, it’s guiding somebody down a path like a TurboTax kind of experience, and where we find the most places where we see that as you go to a bank’s website, or insurance company’s website, and you’re looking to do something, and then it takes you to a webpage and it lists all the PDF forms that it wants you to then download, fill out, scan and send it back. And it’s not a digital experience. It’s a digital and name only kind of experience. And so removing that friction from especially new account opening loan origination, but servicing kinds of things as well seen a lot of really great stories around that. One of the areas I’ve seen a lot is like leasing kinds of applications in particular, because you have to build in some automation that allows for renewals, right. So after that lease is up, you want to have communications that are generated to renew that or do something that there’s a lot of really interesting things. And there’s the last thing too is we were talking about these signatures, I think on an earlier panel and I always come back to like You know, you have to prepare that document for a signature to. So it’s not just a signature, but it’s all the prepared preparation, the Prepare part of that and then pulling it through. So we’ve seen a lot of kind of action around e signature was like one of the hottest technologies over COVID. It’s crazy,

Daniel Seay 05:19
in interesting piece on the documents, and none of the banks like to admit this, we’ve done this study in a couple of different places, it takes longer to do a renewal, and it does a new money deal. And intuitively, that makes no sense. You’ve already underwritten the client, you’ve done your client selection. But the reality is, when you get into it, you have to go back and cross reference everything from the previous year if you don’t have a good snapshot, and sometimes you’re on like amendment number 10. And so you’re going back to somebody that worked at the bank seven years ago to figure out what they did. And is it okay, if you change it, and so much of that, once you start to actually capture the data, where you can then use it, you can snapshot it and say, only four data elements change from the last time we did this? They’re good move on. So I think that’s really starts to change the game. And, you know, the reality is, even with a lot of the automation, it’s been about new money deals, I got a new client new money, how do I do it fast? Well, the reality is most of us are monitoring, you know, ongoing, most of us are doing, you know, annual reviews, or renewing a lot of credit on a annual basis. And that’s where all the people are, that’s where the money is at. And those are the clients who want to keep and maintain that, you know, own going annuity stream. So does you think about fixing the docks, it starts to make all that so much simpler.

Alijah Poindexter 06:29
I’ll take a moment here to pause everybody, and let everybody know that we are looking forward to your questions. I already have a few in here. They look awesome. But again, if you have any questions, just go ahead and throw them in there. And hopefully, we’ll get to them. So to go back to you, you know, when we keep all this complexity in mind, how does a financial institution How did they manage to automate these complex and multi layered lending solutions at scale?

Atul Verma 06:50
That’s a great point. So we are almost Victor was here before 20 year old bank, almost starting trillion dollars. So we have all the technologies we can ever imagine, right? Everything is there. So the key is to look at how do you go from being artesian to industrial, right, that the scaling part that you mentioned, so we have examples of this team did this. But that’s where this died actually never went beyond that team. So we’re very focused on how do you make sure it’s industrial, it’s applicable to the broader set of processes and broader set of applications. And the second thing, which is more about the value delivery, so automation, for the sake of automation, very quickly kills the business case and the story, right, so you have to make sure there’s enough value and stages of the process. So this particular transformation in the business banking, from day one, we have monthly releases. And each obviously, in the beginning, it took some time to get to a to MVP state. But after that, we were really clear on what our KPIs should be, and how we measure the success as we go forward. So those are the two things where it really helps. And for the company, like ours, is really big. So the point in the previous channel, but we cannot centralize these things, it has to be decentralized. And we have to enable all the groups to self so these tools and build their own automation, those things would be come to mind in terms of how you scale up.

Alijah Poindexter 08:12
Wonderful. Okay, so Chris, I’ll put this one to you. In, you know, it’s hard to believe that it’s already been almost to the day, two years, since everything first shut down, so to speak. And obviously, PPP was a massive part of that. So Chris, you know, obviously, we have a lot of, you know, general ideas about you know, how PPP changed lending automation, specifically commercial lending automation, but you know, from your boots on the ground approach, what did you see happening? And what have you seen, you know, how financial institutions responded?

Chris Gufford 08:40
Yeah, I think, you know, when you when you look at that program, and when it was deployed, and we were super fortunate enough to be involved, you know, pretty heavily trying to help our partner banks take, you know, take that help to the street, so to speak. And, yeah, I think two things happen. One, you know, the banks in the advise in this room, right? Financial institutions, realizing how quickly you can deploy a technology solution when this when, when the necessity strikes, right. And really put something together really, really quickly, that adds the right customer value at the right moment in time. And, you know, then secondarily to that it altered customer expectations almost overnight. I feel like, suddenly, you know, we’re having conversations with a number of institutions that are like, I just need my small business lending to work like that. Right, that we did it that quickly, that fast. And so, and the customer’s expectations are that they want to interact digitally. They want to interact, they want to send their documents in digitally, they want to get their documents back digitally. They want to digital, yes. And those sorts of things, and they want an experience that’s that’s wrapped up into a more web driven phone enhanced experience. All because of that, and I think that’s not just happening, necessarily in the smallest business arena or the business banking arena that we typically think of what PvP is certainly surfacing itself upstream of it in the interactions, you know, I’m sure Karen seeing and, and we are as well, you know, I wouldn’t disagree that the probably the large 100 million dollar hospital deal, there’s still a lot of high touch going on there. But I like to think that it did make it much more high touch high tech, though. And the expectation has even changed there and how they how that should work. So I think it’s impacted upstream and downstream. And in those particular ways, anything else care?

Karen Oakland 10:31
No, we definitely found the same thing. So we built actually, it’s very similarly a PPP, Specific Forms application, especially around the loan forgiveness process, which you guys probably all know, is really complicated, because you had to upload a lot of information about salaries and rents, and there are all kinds of rules changing all the time, I mean, the government keeps changing the rules on you. So you have to go in and keep changing it. And so we actually were really successful, in particular, with banks that did not have big giant IT teams to your point about build versus buy, you know, certainly your Wells Fargo, they are here or not, but you know, somebody like that they had got an army of it, people that can put something together, but to be able to plug and play and be able to use kind of some of these low code, drag and drop kind of business user type solutions, I think that is the wave of the future to be able to scale and be able to get these things up and running quickly. And then similar to Chris, we’ve definitely found that one space started to see oh, this is working here. What else could I do, and similar kinds of really paper intensive complex processes. I think one of the keys with that digital solution, too, is the ability to put in calculations on the back end to right. And so to be able to just automate all of that process made a real difference. I mean, and we always like to talk about it made a real difference in people’s lives to and be able to get that money faster. And that has done has real impact. So

Alijah Poindexter 11:54
So for two and Daniel, you know, when implementing these technologies, which were most instrumental to your bank success, and just sort of automating commercial lending. And so this is RPA. This is workflow process automation on the employee side, of course, machine learning, and, of course, intelligent document automation. So maybe a little bit of insight there.

Daniel Seay 12:14
So, you know, I think long term we look at what are the things are gonna last and drive value is much more around the integration really building automation? No, Robotics has been very beneficial, especially in our operation space. But I also think a lot of times, it’s plugging the gap. Now we’re about to do a major like many of us in this room, we’re on AFS level three, we’re making a decision, you know, what platform we’re gonna replace that with? Well, the team did a great job over the years of doing robotics that we really can’t reuse that took the cost out and the people are there anymore. And now as we move to a new tool, there’s essentially a side project that we now have to do to make sure we don’t lose that level of automation. And so that’s where, you know, Robotics has been very good. In the short run, we used a lot in PvP. But a lot of what we’re looking at is, how can we build things are going to change. So we know we’re going to be plugging vendors in and out for different capabilities, because vendors are just going so deep in certain areas, is no longer you can have one platform that covers just everything.

Atul Verma 13:15
For us, it’s less of the robotics, because we tried to fix the process itself was trying to automate on an older, inefficient process. But workflow automation was big, both front and back. making it transparent to the customer was a big deal for us in the process. That’s a integrated customer experience, that’s a big part of the customer experience. So they know where things are. So a lot of automation around notifications, for example, a lot of automation around real time fraud rules and fraud engine. So we put in something like selfie ID, you can take a selfie, when you’re applying, that gets processed along with your other documentation makes the rule. And the biggest part of these, these are all adjustable. So as we learn more about the customer behavior, either a set of customers or a point in time, we can tweak them, actually. And we saw that very clearly with our selfie Id use. Initially, we when we implemented that for our teams, where when to narrow, and we were at like a 10% approval rate, is that what’s going on. So it’s real time. So that’s the beauty of it, you can really tweak it and open up the aperture as much as you want to close it back again, depending on what’s going on those some examples. But again, back to the point about the tooling is important, but also the value delivery. So you need to look at your end to end process. What are you trying to achieve from an outcome perspective and then focus on those days.

Daniel Seay 14:35
I think the other item and probably even more important than the automation or RPA or anything else is what’s the change management around it. Because if people look back to transparency, they don’t trust what you build, they will find a way around it. And it will always happen and you can try to mandate it from the top down, that you’re never going to have the right employee experience and the right outcome if you’re mandating it versus them wanting to use it. So it’s so important to do that one project I worked on this was not the third, but it actually built a really slick product that was mainly digital and really low adoption rate. So we went in to look at, you know, why is this not being used? We started talking to bankers, the bankers, first person I talked to, oh, well, anytime I get some that fits this box, I refer it to another bank. It’s like, wait a second, you’re referring business to a competitor. And, you know, I was pretty hot went and talked to the next banker, and they said the same thing. And it turned out most of the bankers, especially the ones that were really successful, they were referring to another bank, instead of going through the automated channel, because they said, I took years to build this relationship. I make a lot of money off of this client. And I don’t even understand how this digital channel works. I have no control over I don’t get any updates about it. If my client calls me and they’re upset, I don’t know anything. And so I’m not going to jeopardize that. And so we that make it completely missed a change management aspect around what does it do to our employees? And so there was no vine didn’t get the lift you won’t you miss that end goal of what you were trying to do and so then open it up and actually make it transparent so that the bankers still have control over their client.

Alijah Poindexter 16:11
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